How To Leverage Content With Pat Helmers [Episode 84]

How To Leverage Content With Pat Helmers

I’m bringing you another amazing guest. His name is Mr. Pat Helmers. He and I discuss a lot on how to use content to leverage because content now is providing people the ability to make decisions before they even talk to you about sales or what you’re selling. It’s how to not commoditize yourself, how to stand out in the crowd, and get yourself in the public square using content and how simple it is to do this. People aren’t doing this primarily because they know they should be doing this, but they don’t know how simple it is. We break it right down to the very step-by-step process. Let’s talk to Pat. I’m sure you’re going to enjoy this.

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Pat, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here.

Doug, I am honored to visit you. Thank you very much for having me.

I’m excited to talk about the subject matter that you and I discussed, which was content creation, how to leverage it, and using it in presales, during sales, etc. Why don’t you tell everybody what you consider content creation, so everybody’s on the same page?

Content creation is to that marketing space. It’s things that you say and shares with the world that differentiates you from everybody else out there. It’s essentially your brand. A lot of people forget that. It’s certainly in the context of building tweets, Instagram posts, posts on LinkedIn, and podcasting, which is something that I’ve been a big part of. Those are all the tactics around it, but content creation is about a strategy for building the written word or media that represents your brand.

Why is that important that people see that now? Years ago, we’d see billboards. We’d see something on television, and maybe it would be a local advertisement or newspaper magazine. Why is it more important now than it ever was? I believe it is. I hope you do, too, because I’m putting myself in a position where you shoot me now. The reality is, why do you think it’s important now and in 2023 to do it?

It’s because the competition’s tough. There is much competition out there. You’re not competing with somebody on the other side of town or somebody within your state. You’re competing with people all around the world or all across your nation. A lot of stuff, from a buyer’s point of view, looks like a commodity. It’s hard for people to differentiate you from something else. You’ve got to stand out, and content marketing is one of the primary ways people do that these days.

There are a couple of points here, like competition. As soon as you said it, I was like, “Wow.” It’s not just, “We’re in the United States.” The second thing that hit me was it’s inexpensive now for competitors. They do it because they can do it for free in many cases, and they certainly do it for lower costs. It levels the playing field. Back when I was growing up, if you wanted to throw a full-page news ad in, like The New York Times, it cost a few tens of thousands, if not more, of dollars to do that for one ad.

Now for tens of thousands of dollars, you can create all kinds of stuff and proliferate the internet if you knew what you were doing for $30,000 to $40,000 compared to one ad. It’s no longer, “The bigger companies can do this, and the smaller companies can’t compete.” That’s proliferation. I love what you said, “In the buyer’s mind or view, you’re a commodity if you’re not there.” Let’s go there because I don’t think people realize that’s what’s happening.

It’s understandable. I love my children. I think my babies are beautiful. I put my whole life into them. I can’t help but think, “Why wouldn’t somebody want to love this baby and want to buy this baby?” From the buyer’s point of view, every baby looks like a golf ball. All golf balls are white and rounded. They all look alike. Buyers got real problems, challenges, and aspirations. We talk about pain, but they’ve also got hopes and dreams. Unless something that you build, provide, or service solves something that they have a desire for, they’re not going to be interested. It’s got to speak to that buyer in their context, not in the context of you as the person who’s had this baby.

Buyers have real problems and challenges and aspirations. We talk about pain, but they've also got hopes and dreams and unless something that you build or provide solves something that they have a desire for, they're not gonna be interested. Click To Tweet

It’s a good point because we all look at children in general, certainly our own. We all look at them and go, “Wow.”

“They’re beautiful.”

In most children, we do look that way, but other people look at the child and go, “That thing will throw up on me.” When it comes to the buyer’s context, if we all look like the same zebra in the herd where we all have stripes, how do they pick us out? They have problems. They want resolutions. They have opportunities. They want to be capitalized on that. Prior to ever even talking to them, now we can position that way easier than ever before.

That’s where content comes in and shines because we can put forth some type of understanding that puts us now on a buyer coming inbound to us versus us having to go outbound, which is a very different position. How do you leverage content, then? Let’s say somebody goes, “You convinced me already.” How do you leverage content to put yourself into the public square to position yourself the right way to beat out the competition or at least put yourself in a place where you’re in the top five?

This is a step that a lot of people forget. A lot of people will know that they need to tweet a lot, put a lot of Instagram posts out there or post on LinkedIn a few times a week and things like that. What to put in there is where people struggle. The best way of knowing what to say is to truly understand your ideal client and the problems and desires that they have. One of the best ways of doing that is to interview them or to do some research study like, “What are the top three problems that you’re challenged with? What are the top three desires that you hope to have? What are three things that you wish people could take from their business and make it go away or make it disappear?”

It doesn’t need to be very many, like 20 or 30. What a statistician says is 50 to make it statistically significant. You’ll get a pretty strong idea of what people are struggling with. If you’re interviewing them with open-ended questions, they’ll tell you exactly the words to say. They’ll say, “I can’t believe this is happening. It gives me indigestion every morning at breakfast,” or something like that, so that when you write content, you write, “Do you have indigestion every morning before you go to work?” People will go, “That’s me. I have that problem.” If they think you understand what their problems are, they’ll make an assumption that you have the solutions for them too.

You said something key, and it drives me crazy because people do this all the time, “They don’t do the research.” That drives me crazy. It’s like, “I got a problem. This person’s not talking to me. This company won’t talk to me.” I’m like, “Do they want to? What’s the compelling reason they want to talk with you?” “I want to talk with them.” “Sorry, that’s not good enough. That’s like walking up to a beautiful lady at the bar and going, ‘I want to talk to you,’ and she goes, ‘Get lost, loser.'” It’s that type of thing.

I’ll give you an example. My friend Tim and I were down in Florida. We were at a place, and Tim was with his girlfriend. I heard two girls talking. They were both very attractive, and I was single at the time. They are talking about Connecticut and where they’re from in Connecticut, etc. Tim and I grew up together. We’ve been very competitive our whole lives. I go up to Tim. I’m sitting down at the table and go, “I bet you I can tell you who is in this room and what state they’re from.” He goes, “No, you can’t.”. I said, “I bet I can. Look at those two girls over there. I bet you I can tell you exactly where they’re from. I’ll study them, and I’ll tell you in one moment.” He goes, “No, you can’t do it.” I said, “$50.”

He goes, “You’re on.” He pulls out $50 towards it on the table. I throw it on the table. I go, “Hold on,” and I do my little Houdini-like-looking thing. I said, “They’re from Connecticut. Hold on. Let me give you their industry maybe they work in.” I start going Houdini thing again. I go, “I think it has something to do with automotive. I’m getting a little fuzzy thing.” He goes, “You’re full of it.” I’m like, “It’s $50. Why don’t you ask them?” He walks over and goes, “I wanted to know, are you from Connecticut and work in the automotive industry?” They go, “Yes, we are.”

He gives me the money. He’s like, “You rat.” I walk over and go, “It’s neat in the automotive industry. Is this happening in the automotive industry?” It’s all the stuff I heard them say. They go, “Yes.” They go pull up a chair, “Let’s talk.” My point to everybody is not that I’m smart or devious in the case where, Tim, if you’re reading this, I got you $50. What you said is critical. If you understand what they want, what they don’t want, and as importantly, equally as you use the same language patterns they’re using in that particular ad or social media piece, it’s like they know you forever. Why don’t people do this more often? I don’t understand.

You listened. What is it that doesn’t make people want to listen? People want to tell. People have this bizarre idea that sales are about telling people about their crap, trying to force it and shove it on people. You sat there and listened. You eavesdropped, and it was profitable for you.

We hung out for a couple of days. We are friends. It turned out that they lived not too far from where Tim lived. Every time I go out and see him, I can say hi. For some reason, people make this much more difficult than it is. You hammer on the head of the nail. They don’t know what to say. They know they need to do it. The one problem is getting them to do that. The second thing is they don’t know what they need to say and what you’re doing in the formula.

It goes back to what you said. You said you did this Houdini thing that gave your friend a sense that you’re mindreading somehow. It’s coming through the ether. People think that somehow that’s going to work. You can’t read people’s minds, but you can know what they’re thinking if you ask them, “What’s the biggest challenge you’re facing this week right now in your business? What are you putting all your efforts into right now this week? That’s got to feel terrible having that challenge. That’s got to be annoying. I think I have something that can help with that. I’m not sure if it’s a good fit or not. Would you be interested in hearing what I’m going to tell you?” They’re going to say, “I would love to see that.” I haven’t told them anything about what I have yet, but I have told them I care about them, listened to them, and repeated back what I heard from them.

You can't read people's minds, but you can know what they're thinking if you ask them. Click To Tweet

This also sounds basic. Isn’t there a secret sauce to this whole thing? Don’t I have to do a triple-blind study or whatever? This can’t be this easy. I know I’m being facetious.

It’s not hard, and the thing is, it’s very easy. I’m talking to people I don’t know. We were told, “Don’t talk to strangers,” when we were kids. People have a tendency to still keep that as adults. It’s not hard to step up to a stranger and say, “I see you’re in this industry. I’m doing a market research study. I wonder if I could ask you 2 or 3 questions. What’s your biggest challenge? What are your biggest aspirations for the next five years? Where do you think the industry’s going?” Something like that. When they tell you the answer, you go, “Thank you very much,” and you move on.

When you do that to 20 or 30 people, then you factor out all the commonalities, and you’ll know exactly what to say. You can go back to them probably a month later and say, “I heard you said that you have this problem and this other thing.” “Yes.” “I think I might be able to help you. Would you like to see what we have?” They’ll say, “Yes.” If you put that in marketing content, LinkedIn posts, Instagram posts, on a tweet, and on Facebook, create a Facebook, add a Google Ad, and use those exact same words that they used, which you heard people say over and over, that’s the trick. The trick is to tell people what they already know. The trick is not to convince them that you’re better than anybody. It’s to show that you understand them, and then they’ll be interested in you.

It’s building a relationship right from the beginning, getting commonality.

There is way too much transactionalism in the world. That’s what people hate about sales. You can’t do that hardly as much anymore because of the internet. There is so much more opportunity that goes back. There is so much competition. If everything looks the same, then I’m going to make a decision based on price.

The second component for people, if they’re looking for the second part of that formula, is when you recognize what those problems are and be an expert on what those problems or opportunities are. I’ve done the same thing you’re saying, and it works every time. I interview these people and ask them questions. A lot of times, you get their contact information in the process of doing that. All these things will start to overlap if we do enough, like 50, the magic statistical number. It’s not that high. You and I both know it’s 20 or 30.

You start to hear the same things over and over again. You take those same things and put them into the top 5 or 10, then come up with some answers and create a little report. You call them back, and you go, “I don’t know if you remember me or not. We talked six weeks ago. I’ve been doing my research and came up with the findings. Can I share them with you?” It is crazy. You set up a little twenty-minute conversation, pull your report up and say, “I have this report. This is what’s there.” You have this conversation. It amazes me to this day that people go, “Do you want another appointment?”

I’m doing that now. We did a market research project on an IoT device for manufacturing. We asked them open-ended questions like that. We built something over the summer. We have something we want to show them. How am I following up? “Remember when I came out of this market research on you, and I asked a bunch of questions? We have done that study as I promised. I promised you I’d bring back the findings and some of the things we’re doing to address that. Would you be interested in meeting with me again so I could show you what we’re doing?” They’re like, “Sure.” It makes logical sense to them.

“To get 20 or 30 decent appointments, I’d rather make 100 phone calls a day and try to persuade somebody, interrupt them, and have people hang up on me.” No. He is working too hard. We can use the content for that positioning tool to put us on an expert status, so now they want to talk.

We see five issues that people have all the time, five things people in the industry struggle with, the five solutions people in your industry always are looking for and aspiring to have. When you send those people emails and say, “I wrote a blog post about this. You might find it interesting,” you put that on LinkedIn and reuse it over and over. Make it a tweet or an Instagram post.

You could even take those five things and break them down and do YouTube Shorts on them.

I know people who are killing it with TikTok. They’re not dancing like kids. They’re creating real content.

It’s funny you bring that up because my daughters are talking about TikTok. TikTok started to eat what’s now called Meta, which was Facebook. They’re taking a lot of their clientele off of Facebook, going toward TikTok. Not all, but many of them. I was talking to them about us doing the business side on TikTok. They’re telling me what to do and what not to do. I’m talking to the kids because they’re watching this all the time. I’m like, “Does dad got to put on a dress, jump out there and do all this stuff dancing around?” They’re like, “No.” The reality is that we can leverage these platforms for very cost-effective amounts of time, energy, and money, or we can work the hard way when it comes down to it.

I love the fact that you’re saying how simple this is. People are trying to create this magic hot sauce or the triple-flying dragon kick of content. It’s like, “No, Bruce Lee never throws that. If he did, it was always practiced because he’d probably get knocked down in a fight.” Pat has a company called SalesBabble.com. That is one of the companies. I know you’re using content in the form of a podcast. You got a podcast out. I remember us talking about it, and you were saying you had a Cannabis Podcast out, and you’re leveraging that to get other B2B opportunities through the podcast. What’s the podcast’s name?

It’s a Cannabis Advocate, advocating for cannabis.

If a person thinks about that, “How is it getting the B2B? That seems a little risky to try to get a B2B appointment,” but it seems to be working out pretty well for you.

It’s a B2B podcast. It’s about people in the industry. Cannabis is a weird business, as probably everybody knows. It’s federally illegal. It’s slowly being legalized in states. It’s got issues with banking, and there there are all kinds of problems in it. What’s been terrific about this podcast is that it’s given me an opportunity to interview practically anybody I want in the industry, people high up and low down. I have been able to learn this industry extremely fast by talking to experts in the industry. They’re very quick to introduce me to other people. I’ve been able to build a network extremely quickly.

That’s what I enjoyed about the podcast. From that, then I can get consulting work. That’s been terrific. I do a lot of matchmaking, too, for profit. That’s been fun. I applied for a press pass for a conference, which is one of the largest conferences in the world on cannabis. They immediately gave it to me because I have a podcast. What could have been $1,000 for a ticket to this conference is free. Usually, press passes give you all kinds of VIP places you can go to where people are doing network and whatnot.

It’s a great opportunity for me to walk the trade show floor, meet people, shake hands, get them to understand me, or maybe sponsor my podcast. There are all kinds of opportunities with that. I’ve done that in my sales podcast a number of times. I’ve had sponsors on there for quite a long time. It’s a pretty cool way. That’s what I like about podcasting. It’s something that can be multipurpose too. Every podcast is a blog. The blogs in the podcast or all the different social media networks, I try to repurpose content over and over again.

I love podcasting. As we discussed, I never started the podcast to be a podcaster. It took, and then all of a sudden, people are calling me, and things are happening. It’s like a musician that got out there to play out in the clubs, and all of a sudden, you got discovered. My podcast went to the top third of podcasts pretty quickly because I brought people like yourself who told the real story or the real truth. What I’ve learned through podcasting is exactly what you said. You can take that podcast, and now you don’t have to think much about the content you’re creating because it’s targeted at a specific subject. We can pull the content out, which we do, and spin it in multiple different ways.

That proliferates out. It’s a heck of a lot easier to do it that way because, to me, you do it once, and now you have 7, 8, 9 different ways to put that out there. What’s interesting about the Cannabis Podcast is that an average person wouldn’t think, “It has nothing to do with sales.” We all know there’s a lot of money coming in on cannabis. “What does that have to do with consulting?” It’s the fact that you’re out there and you’re able to have conversations on and around business issues, and the podcast is positioning you as an expert, and the fact you got to press pass that even positions you as an expert in that, as well.

A lot of times, I have conversations with people, and they’re like, “Why would I put this content out? It has no relevance to my audience using humor or something for the day.” They don’t realize that people are stressed out that something that makes them laugh could attract them. What would you recommend to people if they’re like, “I want to start a podcast, but should I do it on the industry-specific or should I do it on a cross-industry? How do I get the content?” It’s two different questions. What would you recommend?

Let’s say you’re in marketing sales. I would look at, “Who’s your ideal client? What’s your value proposition? Who are the people most likely to buy your products?” If you factor out, if you build an avatar around those people, then this is an opportunity for you to do that market research that we were talking about, but you’d be doing it through a podcast. What are the things that you’re struggling with?

Let's say you're in marketing sales. Who's your ideal client? What's your value proposition? Who are the people most likely to buy your products? If you build an avatar around those people, then this is an opportunity for you to do that market research. Click To Tweet

Maybe you already know the things you’re struggling with, and you would interview them on the podcast about how they’ve addressed that struggle. It wouldn’t be about your business necessarily. It would be about the things that your ideal clients care about. This gives you an opportunity to have a conversation with anybody you want in the C-Suite, people that are hard to get a hold of, people who don’t pick up their phones, who aren’t on LinkedIn often, or any email you send them goes to spam.

Here’s an opportunity for you to get in front of them. The way they’re looking at it is, “I’m creating content to promote my business or my personal brand as an executive because I’m always looking for the next gig myself to move from company to company.” It’s a win-win in that regard. You would interview them on the problems they have, which may have nothing to do with your business, but at the end of every interview, they’re going to say, “What do you do in your business?” “I do consulting for people in your industry. I sell a product or a service for people in your industry.” They’re going to go, “Tell me more about that. Maybe we should have a sales call on that. Do you have your calendar? Set up an appointment now.”

Now you have an in with this person because you’ve built a relationship with them. You’re not treating this as transactional. You’ve been here doing like what we’re doing right now, and there could be more than happy to say, “I would like to know about you. I’m going to bring some people in for that call. Would that be okay?” “It would be awesome.”

The one caveat I will tell people if they’re new is do not start a podcast to get your ideal clients on that podcast to try to pitch them. A lot of podcast teachers out there are doing that. They’re saying, “This is great to get your ideal prospect on the podcast.” If you do that and they perceive it as a bait and switch, you’re going to completely break the rapport.

Live in a life of integrity, especially in these times of the internet, because bad news gets out fast. I wouldn’t do that. I have sold all stuff in my life that I’m not an expert on. If you’re in it, selling it long enough, or talking to people long enough before you know what people think, “You’ve been in this industry for years. You understand what’s going on. You know all the important people and what the hot buttons are,” you’re like, “No, you pick up word of mouth.” That’s what a podcast can do. It can make you become an expert in the industry, even though you’re not from that industry.

All you have to do is go out and interview people that are potential targets and ask them what they are looking for, the pains, opportunities, and all of that, like what we started at the beginning of this show. One thing I learned from this show, which I had a suspicion of, but had no confirmation of, is that almost every CEO I’ve ever talked with that has had a substantial size company has said the same thing. Folks, write this down because if you’re selling to the C-level side, “We don’t want to be sold to. We want to buy.”

Every single time that question comes up, “How do you want to be sold to?” they go, “I don’t want to be sold to. I want to buy.” Part of creating content is allowing them to get that information so they can buy versus walking into a store and then having a sales team maul them when they walk into whatever commission-based appliance company or furniture store. To me, those are worse nowadays than ever before because they walk right up to you and go, “How are you doing today?” It’s like, “No. Worst line in the world.”

You know they’re selling full commission. They just want to sell you something. That’s fine, but they’re positioning that way versus getting to know, “What are you looking for here in the store? How do you like to be interacting with people?” In the furniture industry, all you have to do is ask potential customers. They’ll tell you this stuff like Pat is saying to do. Pat, anything you want to say to the audience or something we didn’t put forth? I know we could talk all day long, and you’ve got other things to do as well.

I want readers to get it in their heads that you are there to serve and to help them. That’s what people want it. It’s like what you said. They want to buy. People are skeptical about sellers, but deep down, secretly, they wish they could buy a solution from you that would take their problems away. Deep down, that’s what they want. They want to buy if you make it easy for them or you can give them value. If people aren’t buying, doing all this right, and you truly understand what they want, what their problems and their aspirations are, and they’re still not buying, you may have a problem with your product or service. It may not be about sales. I have been in that space where I’ve been able to sell to all kinds of people and get almost to the finish line but not be able to cross it because I didn’t have what they wanted.

That’s another great thing about this kind of selling. They’ll tell me exactly what’s wrong with it, and then you can go back to product development and tell them, “This is what we need. This is the thing that’s stopping us. This is the thing that’s holding us back.” The customer has all the answers. You just got to ask them. That’s the bottom line here. That’s the takeaway.

That’s very wise advice for most industries. The SaaS industry, in general, follows that because they’re constantly starting a beta group and doing that and keeping with them. A lot of other industries don’t do that. They take it for granted. What ends up happening is something happens, like the recession’s coming. It’s going to change how people do business. It’s that simple. Times are easy and good in certain industries, and when the recession wasn’t there. Now it’s going to get a lot more real to have to do what we’re talking about doing. Otherwise, they’re going to find themselves in positions where, “I’m not selling what we’re supposed to be selling. Look at the numbers and all that stuff.” Pat, I appreciate you being here. This was an awesome conversation. I enjoyed it very much. How do people get ahold of you if they desire?

It would be great if they listened to the podcast at SalesBabble.com. We’ve been podcasting for many years. There is a lot of great content out there. We talk about this very thing all the time in a fun way. That’s an easy way. I’m easy to find on LinkedIn at Patrick Helmers. I also have a company called Habanero Media. We help people start podcasts, and we do this very same thing using podcasts to improve your sales and marketing. That’s the whole thing of that. If they want to look at that, it’s HabaneroMedia.net.

Thanks for being on the show. I’m very grateful you’re here.

This is a super duper honor. This has been fun. This is a great conversation. We can talk about this all day.

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What did you learn? Maybe you learned that this is not that hard to do and that you can do it. Here’s a key. You’ve got to schedule a time to do it. If you make this like, “I’ll do it whenever,” what’s going to happen is whenever it is going to be probably not ever or erratic. Consistency in this content delivery is important. I never realized how important it was until I stopped for a little bit. I was doing it, YouTube, blogging, and putting out all kinds of things. It’s not overwhelming to do it, but putting it out on a consistent basis. I took a couple of weeks off and got people coming to me and saying, “Where are you? Why don’t I have this content? I rely upon this.”

I’m like, “Who are these people?” I didn’t know that they were following me. You will get followers. If you do this for a long enough period of time, those followers turn into clients. Please don’t discount what Pat and I are telling you about this content strategy. You’ve got to be out in the public square more than ever, and you’ve got to get heard because there are many people worldwide competing with you. Depending on what you do, generally, it can be delivered on a worldwide or certainly on a nationwide basis.

I’ll give you an example. We have a little more noise coming through on the office because it’s close enough to the highway that I’m hearing some highway noise come in, and I’m like, “I want to solve that problem.” I’m calling around locally, and people are like, “I don’t know how to solve that problem. Do I get storm windows on the window? What do I do?” There are a couple of specialty companies that make inserts for interior windows.

You put a window right before your interior window, and that blocks pretty much all the sound that would be coming through. They are not cheap. They’re on the opposite end of cheap to be able to do that. Here’s the key. I’m in New Hampshire. One of these companies I was talking with is in Florida, Seattle, Washington, or Portland, Oregon area. That’s a long distance away. They are competing with the local glass companies now in order to do the same thing because they’re specializing in certain things that the local glass companies won’t even do.

They are still competing with them because the local glass companies are like, “We’ll switch out your window. We’ll put new windows in.” I already know putting a triple-pane glass versus a double-pane glass is not going to reduce the sound that much. It’s not the ideal solution, but these people have the ideal solution. They are competing with them. How did I find them? Content. That’s how I found them. People will go up and search content first, and then when you’re positioned as the expert on that content, they will be connecting with you. As always, if you like the subject matter and you want to read a different subject matter or even more on the subject matter, reach out to us and let us know. If you happen to be an expert in that particular subject matter and want the opportunity to be on the show, reach out to us at YouMatter@CEOSalesStrategies.com.

If you like this show, please review it. If you love this show, give it a five-star review. I’d be appreciative. I know it takes five minutes to do that. It’s five minutes well-spent, making a good friend, me. If you don’t mind doing it, I would appreciate it. Tell your friends and people about this. The more people that read this, the more people that get helped. Why this was started in the beginning was to help people bring real people, content, and deliverable stuff that they can actionally use. It’s actionable. If you, someone you know, your team, or your sales team wants to get to the top 1% earners in what you’re selling, where you could be a solo entrepreneur all the way from a 200 to the 300-person sales team, if you want your people or yourself to be there, and you want help in doing that and understanding the process to it, let me know.

If you’re a company looking for these 1% earners that have been fully trained and deployed, reach out to us either way at Doug@CEOSalesStrategies.com. My LinkedIn is @DougBrown123. The phone number here is (603) 595-0303. Please go out and sell something. Sell it profitably. Sell a lot of it. Play win-win. Help people. Make them and yourself happy. Make the world a better place through selling. Until next time. I’m signing off. To your success.

Important Links

• Mr. Pat Helmers
• SalesBabble.com
• Cannabis Advocate
• Patrick Helmers – LinkedIn
• YouMatter@CEOSalesStrategies.com
• @DougBrown123 – LinkedIn
• https://www.Facebook.com/phelmers
• https://Twitter.com/PatHelmers
• PatHelmers@habaneromedia.net