While the idea of expanding your company can be intimidating, it doesn’t have to be. Sam Palazzolo, Founder of Tip of the Spear Ventures, knows a thing or two about merging and acquisitions – and from companies big, small, and everywhere in between. In this episode of CEO Sales Strategies, join Sam and Doug C. Brown as they discuss mergers and acquisitions, finding “unicorn” employees, strategies for building a productive team, and more.
Sam Palazzolo is the Founder/Managing Director at Tip of the Spear Ventures, a Private Equity firm that provides early-stage entrepreneurs with venture capital, has a holding portfolio from Mergers & Acquisitions, and conducts Business Funding services. He and his team have built the organization into one of Venture Capital’s favorite firms, a sustainable leader, and dramatically increasing customer satisfaction and growing financial results for the companies they help grow.
Visit his website: www.tipofthespearventures.com
I’ve got a great guest for you. His name is Mr. Sam Palazzolo. Sam and I have known each other for a bit now and we have conversed several times. In this particular episode, pay attention to what we discuss on mergers and acquisitions because it’s a growth strategy in companies. A lot of times, people don’t think about this as a growth strategy because they think, “I don’t think I can do that. I don’t have the cash, cashflow, resources or whatever capacity. What am I going to do if I gain all this new business out of the gate?”
It’s really not that scary and difficult once you understand how to do it. Sam and I talk quite a bit about that. We also talk about how to hire productive teams and what it is to have a productive team, as well as a bunch of all kinds of different things. This is a great episode for you if you are looking to expand your company and pay attention to what he’s got to say.
We have a very fine guest for you in this episode. His name is Sam. He is from Tip of the Spear Ventures and he’s got a very interesting background as you are going to find out. I brought him on because we are going to talk a lot about building productive teams but also because he has the venture capital and a very skilled financial background as well. A lot of times, you can externally or internally fund a company. We will probably get into that as we go along. Sam, welcome to the call, sir.
Thank you, Doug.
Could you give people a little bit of background? How did you come to build Tip of the Spear Ventures?
I launched Tip of the Spear Ventures in 2012 after I successfully led a tech startup to private equity exit. I like the model. I love the entrepreneurial experience. I said, “That’s what I want to do. I want to build a private equity firm.” I have a financial background so it wasn’t exactly a moonshot. We built Tip of the Spear and prior to that, I come from big consulting, Deloitte and The Change Management Group. I had my own consulting firm for years that I grew from single shingle to twenty folks. We were working on initiatives, primarily sales biz dev related. We were working with clients that were here domestically in the US as well as internationally before the tech startup.
When I left the tech startup, I had one of my senior partners call me up and they ask, “Can we put the band back together?” I said, “That sounds amazing. Let’s do it.” I want to do something different this time. I want there to be two sides to the house. We formed this company called Tip of the Spear Ventures and to this day, we still have two sides of the house.
One side is very much still a consultancy. We do what’s called business transformation consulting, which essentially is change management. We have a heavy focus on sales biz dev that allows us to go organization broad. We will swim upstream to marketing and strategy, and downstream to operations for the fulfillment and the customer experience.
Business transformation consulting is what it is that we help clients ranging from the Fortune 100 all the way through the SMB market completely. The other side of the house, as you alluded to, is very much a venture side. We do three things well. First is we help entrepreneurs with their ventures. Revenues of greater than $1 million seem to be our threshold for success.
We love working with leaders there to help take those organizations even further faster. We do two other things, business funding that you mentioned. Traditionally, most people think of it as a capital raise but we also have identified some of the work that I did with the University of London, which consists of identifying five unique customer funding elements.
The last thing that we do on the venture side of the house is we are a great M&A firm. I say great because we work exclusively with exiting Baby Boomers who don’t have a clear line of succession. They are looking to carry on the legacy of the organization so that they rightly should have carried forward. We can pick up that legacy and run with it. That’s Tip of the Spear Ventures and we are a Nevada corporation. I love all things Las Vegas.
You hit on something that a lot of people don’t think about but the M&A side, which is Mergers and Acquisitions can be a great way to grow a company but a lot of people don’t think about it as growth strategy. You are a growth strategy expert. The thing I like about you is you are so quiet and suave but the reality is you are a formidable business person in life and very knowledgeable.
What I noticed on your side is you have multitudes of ways for companies to grow. You are helping them grow their revenues. One of those ways is through M&A. I don’t think a lot of people understand. They think, “I’ve got to come up with all this money and I can never buy my competitor. I can’t do this or that.” Could you speak to that myth?
Sometimes you don’t know what you don’t know and that’s a benefit for you as a leader in business or life but I didn’t recognize that I was as fortunate as I was having a private equity exit with the startup, that entrepreneurial journey because the statistics are significantly against you. The odds are against you in an entrepreneurial startup fashion.
Less than 2% of all organizations go to that private equity type of exit. The statistics bear out that the failure rate is significantly high so you are exactly right. The concept is called entrepreneurship through acquisition as opposed to entrepreneurship through a startup. It’s also termed, acquisition entrepreneurs. That’s neither here nor there.
What is important though is the concept of rather than having to go and start from scratch, I can go out and I can acquire a business that already has those three key tenets, people, process and technology. The most important one is the people aspect of it, not only from an internal but from an external. Meaning, customers are already in place and revenue is currently being driven at the organization. By far, it’s a much better success path.
I always thought that, “Who am I to go out and buy a company?” Granted we are a private equity firm. We can raise funds, to go out and do investments in organizations, as well as acquire them. Who are we to do that in an M&A space? When I think of M&A, I think of big Fortune 500 international conglomerates who are looking at each other and figuring out, “How are we going to do this?” What’s a guy like me going to do with an organization that’s somewhere between $1 million and $10 million top-line revenue? Are those even approachable? Can those be acquired? The reality is yes. They are and can be. It’s much easier within reach than most entrepreneurs perceive it to be. That’s from a pure acquisition play.
If you already have an organization and you are looking to scale and grow it, there are three ways in which you can grow a business from a selling perspective. You can sell to new clients or customers. That’s super sexy. That’s where the focus is. There’s also the upsell-cross sell opportunity so allow them the opportunity to purchase more at the time of purchase. The final way is to get them to come back, repeat and repurchase at the tighter timeline. Those are the big three.
What if over the top of that, you threw a model that said, “We are going to work with the customer base that we have but we are also going to go out and look at our competitors that are in the space who serve the same customers.” Maybe they are direct competitors or competitors in the channel, either upstream or downstream, where they provide either service to before us or after us. Maybe those are the types of companies that we should look at acquiring and maybe we can build on to our own little channel development in an acquisition stream. By far, it’s a much easier and successful approach. I would argue it’s as sexy as dealing with those new client acquisitions.
It’s always nice to say, “I went from $5 million to $15 million overnight.” A lot of companies are afraid or don’t know how to go out and do something like this. Like you said, “Can I buy between a $1 million and a $10 million company?” What I have found and I’m in the middle of doing this with somebody, is they are getting older. Not that I’m a young spring chicken anymore but they are looking at what are they going to do with their business once they are gone.
Sometimes coming in, I would be like with this person, “I value what you do and I want to help you extend your legacy beyond. When you are ready to stop, I’m ready to continue. Would you be interested in having an arrangement like that?” I don’t think people get this is an acquisition over time. People think that they’ve got to do exactly what you said. They’ve got to find somebody like yourself who has the capital, to help them raise the capital, get the bank to do it or whatever but there are creative ways of acquiring. I also believe a lot of times your competition can be your best asset.
We had a conversation with one of the organizations that we acquired, where the gentleman wanted to sell it but when he started to sell it, he probably should have started years before our conversation. In other words, he hadn’t set his organization up to be sold or acquired. The other issue that we typically find is that for folks who are looking to exit and sell their business, not only are they not prepared but when they do exit, it’s over, and then what?
We like to work with entrepreneurs who own their own businesses that are in that demographic where they want to retire or maybe they have different interests. Maybe there’s a way that we can develop some type of an agreement or a long tail relationship where they can off-ramp over a series of years, as opposed to a dramatic stop. “On the 30th or 31st of the month, when we ultimately sell this business, we are done.”
Most of the entrepreneurs that we work with like that type of relationship. Why wouldn’t they? We have folks who have owned businesses for as little as 10 years and as many as 40 years. Those aren’t just, “I think I’m going to go into the office or if my golf game wraps up, I’m going to go back to the office or to the manufacturing plant and start working.” That’s not the case at all. As a matter of fact, most of the entrepreneurs we work with, haven’t sniffed a golf course in the last decade. They have thrown their blood, sweat and spears into the business, and they are fully all in. To pull all out, it’s a stretch for them and it can be an adjustment.
I can imagine some of the people reading here and it blows my mind. Sometimes people when they are working a business like that, a lot of people that I have talked with in the past are like, “Why would they want to sell their business if they are doing $10 million a year?” There are all kinds of reasons. Maybe they lost focus and they want to do something else.
My father had a business from 1962 to 1980 and he built it on his back. It was a thriving business. It had a dozen employees in it and doing well. One day he comes down, locks the door and he walks away from the business I said, “Dad, what are you doing?” He goes, “I can’t take it anymore. I want to go fishing.” He goes and buys a fishing vessel and becomes a lobsterman but the building was there and paid for. Everything was there and thousands of clients were in the database.
I said to him, “Dad, why don’t you sell versus cash out and walk away. You’ve got to lose all this.” Back then, it was hundreds of thousands, if not a $1 million-plus he was leaving there. He didn’t take my advice but then a couple of years later, one of his competitors came to him and said, “Would you like to come to work for us?” He took the offer.
The reality is that competitors would have bought him and retained him for his knowledge and expertise in the business. What I want people reading this to get is if you get creative and to have a little bit of understanding where the person is coming from or a lot of bits, then a lot of times, money doesn’t have to come right out of pocket right away. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn’t. Has that been your experience as well?
It has been. You hit on a couple of different things there that all approach with the why sell question that you phrased. The first one is that we typically find that we connect with entrepreneurs who own their own businesses when they recognize that we have a significant opportunity to increase our revenue, to grow our business. Some of which could grow exponentially, some could be one and a half times but the reason why it is that they are talking with us is that they don’t know how to go about doing that.
Sometimes if there’s an opportunity with, they turn down a client. We had one who turned down a multimillion-dollar contract with a customer because they were afraid that they couldn’t fulfill it. If that’s your situation, we should talk because we’ve got a strategy that architected for that. The other reason sometimes is that we do a lot of business on both ends of the spectrum. We do technology-oriented startups. We also do some things with Baby Boomer-led manufacturing firms.
It’s in those Baby Boomer-led manufacturing firms that maybe they haven’t exactly been the greatest adopters of technology, not necessarily new technology, like the latest iPhone. We are talking like they still have a flip phone and not that there’s anything wrong with a flip phone because the concept of a phone is still a phone. It rings, you answer. You want to call someone, you hit a series of buttons, and that person ends up on the other line. Flip phones work as well. There’s a whole bunch of other things that an iPhone does better. It is one of those things where maybe they recognize there’s some technology that we can employ here that we don’t have. If we did, it would grow our business.
I will say this much though, in your father, that’s a great story because we had one of the entrepreneurs we worked with who gave us the old cliché of, “I want to keep my friends close and my enemies closer.” In other words, he wants to keep his competitors as close as he can. Not necessarily to do that corporate espionage, the cloak and dagger of, “What are they doing? How are they going to market that? What’s the recipe for Coke?” Not that type of thing. They are doing it because they also recognize that sometimes in business, what’s right for them might be perfect or wrong for somebody else. If somebody else can provide them with that introduction to what that right moment is or customer, all the better.
This is one of the things that I love best about our business. It’s that there’s a great networking event that takes place, time and time again, where I will be approached by an entrepreneur. They’ve got a great idea and technology but it’s not the right opportunity for us. It’s wrong for us. I probably know someone that is perfect for or right for and so I will provide the introduction. Those types of introductions happen time and again in my space. It’s one of the things that I love most about what it is what we do.
If somebody wanted to get ahold of you or they will read this and go, “I didn’t have a thought about maybe we should acquire a competition or we should be able to extend our reach through competitive play,” and they want to know more about you, the company, and what you can possibly do for them, how do they get ahold of you? What would be the contact stuff?
They can visit us at TipOfTheSpearVentures.com. I will pop up in a chatbot in the lower right-hand portion of the website screen. All you need to do is enter some contact information there. I will outreach and connect with you. If I’m online at the time, which normally I am, I will begin chatting with you right there in the chatbot. That’s the easiest way. Sometimes folks don’t recognize, “Should I get a hold of somebody like Sam? What does it look like?”
We have bridged the gap between where they are at and where I’m at by providing them with a Business Transformation Self-Assessment Workbook. We created it. It’s 37 pages in length, 128 questions. They can go through it themselves and identify all of the different business transformation opportunities that we typically see with the organizations that we work with if those same things play out in their business. You can also secure that at our website.
When I went to your website and I saw your face pop up on the chatbot, I was like, “This is cool.” This is an idea that I had not thought about because I know all about chat and I talk to clients about chat but I don’t have it on my website. Here’s the thing though. A lot of times when people come to our websites and they are browsing around and a chatbox comes up, they have a question, all of a sudden, they feel safe enough because it’s like, “They are not going to be calling me or whatever they are thinking on that side.” I introduced this to a B2B training company and it increased their lead flow by almost 30% off their website of the chatbot. I would encourage everybody to give it a look and see if it works for them. Have you found that people like to use the chat feature?
I think that they don’t recognize that they are talking with a real person. This is the other thing. You are talking with me. Most of it that are out there in the technology and corporate world is automated 100%. From our perspective, we looked at it like, “We don’t want to do that.” We could automate it and have it channeled down where you answer 50 questions and each one takes you down a different rabbit hole based on what it is that you answer.
It’s one of those things where on our website it’s, “What brings you by? Welcome,” which is I’m from one of those big Italian families. That was our signature greeting for everybody that came to the front door, “Welcome. Come on inside. Make yourself at home. What can I get you to eat or drink?” It’s the same thing in a virtual capacity extension, “Welcome to Tip of the Spear. What brings you by?”
I was born and raised in a restaurant business. You and I talked about that but still to this day, everything that I have that’s good in business comes from that restaurant background. The ability to be hospitable and to serve, all of that comes from that background. That’s where that chatbot that you talked about, it’s talking with me. There’s a person on the other end and not technology.
Connecting and building relationships is one of the foundational elements of building any company or any business. It also enhances our lives when we get to talk to real people. You go into these chatbots that you are talking about and it’s like, “Hello, I’m your virtual assistant.” It’s like, “I have a specific question.” You type it in there and it’s like, “I’m sorry. Maybe you want to try this reference or that reference.” It’s like, “I’m done.” If I had somebody like yourself and I asked a specific question, then all of a sudden, it’s like, “That makes sense.” I will start to engage from a client perspective looking saying, “This person can probably help me.” It’s important for most companies.
If it’s a frequently asked questions-type thing, I get where the automation can come in but when it comes to what you do, I do or other companies. Even my dad’s business, they would ask questions that were, “I’m thinking of connecting this wire to this thing.” If the chatbot came up and said, “Go ahead,” they did and they burned themselves.
It’s a cool idea that I hadn’t thought a lot about even though I have recommended it to people but it’s something that I’m going to adopt. I recommend people take a look at it as well. One of the things I love about you is your website, you have about 25 different ways that a company can grow. One of the things that you and I were talking about before was the people part of the business. I have always said business is so easy once you remove the people.
It’s both internal and external, customers included.
When we add people, we add emotions, feelings and desires. That’s what makes it magical in a lot of ways but we were talking about how do you hire productive teams because productive teams are another way of growing the revenue in a particular company. Let’s stick to sales teams at this point, if we could, because I get a lot of questions on sales teams on this particular show. What are some foundational elements that you look for in hiring a top-performing sales team?
I will back up maybe to go forward and that is that if you look at the success factors when it comes to people. People is 1 of the 4 primary pillars that we work with organizations on in our business transformation consulting services. We typically hear the cliché. People are our most important asset yet, we do nothing from either a recruiting initiative to find A-plus talent. We do very little in onboarding to ensure that we provide them with success opportunities, and then we do nothing from a retention perspective or very little.
We figure, “We’ve already got them. Why are we going to invest in them and why would we want to continue to send them to training? Who knows? Maybe even sharpen the saw, sharpen their skills.” I would say this much that hiring great people, everybody wants to go out there and wants to get a team but it starts with one person. You’ve got to look for the person and know strategically where it is that you are going to look to find, and then more importantly, what is it that you want this one person to do?
It’s typically an overreach by most of the organizations and I have worked with big consulting. We are contracted with an organization that wants us to, not only conduct our initiative but the mirror of the initiative is to also train their folks so that way they can execute when the initiative is over. It’s a far overreach from an individual’s perspective where they want the individual to behave in that team-like capacity. In other words, they want the one individual, rather than to do one function, they would like them to be a unicorn capable of doing all types of magical elements, not only a unicorn but a rainbow-colored unicorn on top of it. That’s awfully hard to do when you might have a series of mules out on the farm.
I go back to the people moment. Look strategically for what it is from roles and responsibilities. Building great teams begin with finding one person but ensure that you don’t overreach with that one person and try to make them into this unicorn because few people can do it. That’s why they are unicorns. There are not a lot of unicorns running around there.
I don’t know where it is that if you are on Indeed or ZipRecruiter, I haven’t exactly found a website that’s going to, from a recruiting perspective, provide me with the perfect unicorn but I know on those sites, we can find them. Even on LinkedIn, people who are very specific function, role or responsibility-oriented, who can be brought into an organization and excel.
From a Tip perspective, if I was going to provide some of that type of content, that’s what I would ask people to do. It’s to drive down. Great teams begin with one individual but please don’t ask too much of that one individual. They are not going to be able to do it. They are going to get frustrated and leave. You are going to get frustrated and have to do what it is that they should have been doing.
We are talking about productive people at this point and productive teams. I love what you said about retention. When we are a startup or in a startup atmosphere, unicorns are probably needed more in a lot of ways. When we have limited resources, we need people to fill multiple roles and wear multiple hats most of the time. As the company or the corporation matures, and it gets into a place where there’s a structure in the process, then sometimes having a multi-colored unicorn in a position is disruptive to an organization, at least that’s what I have found.
This is where it comes into the retention and since I’m a little ADD, I wanted to get this in quick, because you mentioned flip phones before and the Motorola 550 was one of the best phones in the world. For those of you who don’t know what I’m talking about, look it up. From a retention point, I don’t see a lot of focus, which is terrible for companies because the cost of turnover is expensive, especially when you have that right individual in a company but I don’t see a lot of companies putting efforts into the retention of the people.
They are doing exactly what you said, “We’ve got them. We are paying them. They are happy, they will stay here and we don’t have to even think about it.” I find the best companies hold on to their people. I have some friends who have 40-year-old companies and they still have original employees in these companies but they do special things to retain them. Do you find that retention should be a higher focus for people in the employees that they want to retain?
It depends on what your strategy is. I will give you two perspectives on it. One is that I have a good friend. They are going to work for an organization. This is the number one product fulfillment company on the planet. You can probably guess who they are but their expectation in one of their departments is to have nearly 500% turnover. That’s their strategic architecture and what they built their business around.
They want to have people that come in, do the work and then they know within a good 3 to 6-month time window, they are going to have 500% to part. That is a frightening figure but number one in the world, it allows you to have a high tide, no rocks, no tree stumps to run the ground down. They are operating at a much better level or a blue ocean than most other business owners.
The other thought that I will throw past you is people do what it is that they get compensated to do. We have developed over the years over 100 different compensation plans that help drive specific performance and behaviors so that way organizations achieve their goals. I’m a firm believer that people do what it is that they get paid to do. In one of the industries that we worked in and one of the organizations, we found that you can walk into an organization.
It feels different when employees have been there for 20 or 30 years. There’s a different vibe and cultural landscape. It feels different as opposed to the one with the 500% turnover, which is probably much more operating room stir up because nobody has time to put stuff in their cubicles at that turnover rate.
What we found though with this industry was that people were staying there for a long time because they liked the culture and atmosphere. Their compensation plan, by the way, wasn’t very great. They weren’t the top payers within the industry, nor did they need to be, because people wanted to come to work there because they liked the place and people.
They also liked the work but that was neither here nor there, and it wasn’t first or second. You didn’t have to pay the people a lot, which was interesting. We have also worked in those industries and organizations where they paid a ton because they knew it was a brutal atmosphere. The leaders were bad. That’s the nicest way I can phrase it. In those types of organizations, people still wanted to go to work there, too.
There was always a new group of recruits that were coming through the door. Why were they going? They were interested in making a buck, plain and simple. The organization and their strategic architecture, that’s what they were interested in doing, too. Those are a couple of different thoughts on that from when it comes to compensation, pay plan and people. Does that make sense?
Absolutely and I would love to have you back on a future show to talk about compensation plans because most people don’t understand them. What I’m hearing is an overarching theme and I subscribe to this as well. If you are going to hire somebody, understand what the specific role for that person to be and the environment in which they are supposed to be working, and then look for people who fit that role specificity but also the personality who’s driven in that atmosphere.
If you take somebody who has been in a company for 40 years, let’s say, and they are looking at retirement and going to be on the exit, maybe they do or most times they won’t. They were not interested in getting into this high-pressure, startup sales atmosphere at that point. It’s about quality of life all the way through people’s lives. If people look at what’s the quality of life going to be here for these people, then they can come up with the right match. Am I targeted correctly on that?
You are spot on. That’s a great way to look at it. There has also never been a better time than now. We are within-subject matter expert attainment on any topic. Thanks to Google, as long as you can write in the right keywords and search for it, you can probably, within five pages of results, become a subject matter expert. Why do I bring this up? Most of the organizations that we work with have a difficult time identifying those specific behaviors that they want to accelerate to identify within the compensation plan. They also have a difficult time attracting and recruiting personnel.
The best way to do that is to find out you don’t need to be a great copywriter. I come from that Toyota Lexus world. Toyota Lexus didn’t invent the wheel. They’ve got a hold of a wheel and figured out, “How can we make that wheel spin faster and be better?” I would encourage the small business owners or the business owners out there to do the same thing when it comes to personnel.
We are probably five pages on a google search of identifying the perfect job description for an individual. You are not going to be able to lift and shift or to copy and paste from an organization’s job description, or what it is that they are currently recruiting for or they have recruited for in the past for an individual role and responsibility.
There probably is a great opportunity to take the best of and create a hybrid version that’s perfect for their organization or maybe it’s aspirational where it’s a stretch. Maybe it’s a mule with a sprinkling of a rainbow-colored unicorn on its mane. Maybe it’s something like that that you can create by going out there and searching but it doesn’t begin with that. What are the roles and responsibilities? What’s the compensation plan? It has never been an easier time though to do a google search and to find out who else has looked for this type of person? What type of an organization do we want to architect and model after? Those types of things are clearly within reach. It takes time.
I could talk with you for hours. It’s nice to have you on. People are going to have tremendous value. Folks, go to the website. If you want to talk with Sam directly, hit up the chat on that website. It will be him. It won’t be an automated person and have a conversation. I appreciate you being here. The last question, is there anything that you were hoping maybe I should have asked you that I didn’t on this particular conversation?
It’s one of those things. We hit one of the key aspects. One of the key pillars for our business transformation consulting is people. People are the most important asset any organization can have. Let’s do it again because there are three other pillars out there, strategy, execution and cash generation, either cashflow or revenue gen. If your audience is within my subject matter expertise, which is sales and biz dev, let’s have that conversation on how it is we can drive some more money.
You heard it. Go to his website. Hit him on the chat and see what he can do for you. Sam, again, I appreciate you being here, sir and thanks so much. Have a wonderful rest of your day.
Thank you, Doug.
Wasn’t that a great episode? Now think about this on mergers and acquisitions. How can you acquire work with your competition to expand your revenue? That’s what it’s all about. How do you expand your revenue? Think about it. There are a lot of client bases and things that are going on within a certain company and your competitors sometimes don’t want to deal with it anymore. They’ve got to a place. I had a gentleman that I know had a $200 million company. He said, “The heck with it.” He sold this company off and he started a fly fishing business.
You never know where somebody is at in the process of where they are in the business but the reality is most people don’t want their business just to die. They want to have some type of legacy that continues. It’s a human need for us. We want to have our existence mean something and go on. Part of the whole process is how do you use your competition to either acquire them, expand or help them grow as well and maybe consume them in the process. It’s a win-win scenario.
Also, on and around hiring top-producing teams. I thought Sam brought forth a really great piece of information, which is you want alignment, what do you want this person to specifically do? What is the environment in which they are going to work and how do you align that person’s natural personality up with their expertise? If you do that, you will hire a lot more people and they will stick. They will do a great job for you.
If you find this interesting and you want to talk with me directly, reach out to me either at (603) 595-0303 on the phone. I still do old school. You can go to the website or my LinkedIn profile. I’m DougBrown1234@Gmail.com, which is my personal email address or Doug@BusinessSuccessFactors.com is the other email address that I use for the company. I hope you are all having a great day. Go and sell something. Be great, expand your revenue and let me know what you want to hear about next, to your success.